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Limitless Spirit
For the seekers of a greater purpose in life, opportunities to serve in missions and personal growth in Christ with host Helen Todd.
Limitless Spirit
The Land of Blood and Honey: spotlight on Serbia
What is the root of the Blakan conflict, how to solve it and why you should care?
Serbian pastor Bera talks with host Helen Todd about the intricate history of this turbulent region. They explore how Orthodoxy, Catholicism, and Islam have created a mosaic of national identities and fueled ongoing animosities that complicate the spread of evangelical Christianity. Pastor Bera provides a unique lens on the enduring religious tensions and shares how his small evangelical church in Novi Sad, Serbia, manages to address 30% of the city's emergency needs. From homelessness to addiction and marginalized communities, their outreach is nothing short of inspiring. Pastor Bera reflects on the historical persecution and ongoing challenges faced by Serbian evangelical Christians and the innovative approaches to evangelism and rehabilitation that are bearing fruit.
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Welcome to Limitless Spirit, a weekly podcast with host Helen Todd, where she interviews guests about pursuing spiritual growth, discovering life's purpose through serving others and developing a deeper faith in Christ.
Speaker 2:Welcome to Limitless Spirit, where we discuss topics that matter to followers of Christ, especially those pursuing their greater purpose in Jesus. Today, we focus on the Balkans, specifically the nation of Serbia. You might recognize Serbia because of the famous inventor Nikola Tesla or the tennis player Novak Djokovic. However, serbia and the Balkans are associated often with unresolvable ethnic conflicts and the tragic consequences of extreme nationalism. Serbia, particularly during the bloody Balkan Wars of the 1990s, has often been cast in a negative light as an aggressor and a cruel military opponent. Today, my guest is a Serbian pastor who is loved and respected throughout the Balkan region, despite the ongoing hatred and conflicts among the Balkan countries. He shares important insights into the conflict, discusses the relationship between nationalism and Christianity and explores the only way the Balkan conflict can be resolved. We also talk about the spiritual destiny of his country, serbia, and explores the only way the Balkan conflict can be resolved. We also talk about the spiritual destiny of his country, serbia. Hello, pastor Bera. Welcome to the Limitless Spirit podcast for the second time.
Speaker 3:It's my pleasure. Thank you for the invitation.
Speaker 2:I'm really glad to join you in this conversation. I'm really excited to talk to you today because when God put this vision and desire on Chuck's heart to come to the Balkan region, you were the first person that Chuck felt like God wanted us to partner with. And I don't think it's an accident because now that we have traveled, you know, across the Balkans and different countries, you're one of the most popular and most loved and respected pastors in the Balkan region. So not a coincidence, but definitely God's guidance.
Speaker 3:No, I have many friends. I try to make friendships. So that is the main reason, because I really like to make friendships and connections.
Speaker 2:It's not easy, though you know, and we'll talk a little bit about the history in the Balkans and the relationship between the Balkan countries. I think it's quite remarkable that you are able to achieve this friendship and even love and admiration from the people in other Balkan countries, because the history of this region is quite painful and is still very tense the relationship between the countries, and you know the more that we have traveled and worked around the Balkans. I believe that maybe this is the reason and this is more of a question to you maybe this is the reason, you know that pain and maybe animosity even. Could this be the reason that Christianity, meaning evangelical Christianity, is not spreading faster across these nations?
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, that is the main reason. That is the main reason and some historical influence. That's happened because of war. So when we spoke about Balkans the name of Balkans, showing how this area is difficult for life that is Turkish word and meaning land of honey and blood.
Speaker 2:Really.
Speaker 3:When Ottomans came here, they gave this area that name because they saw how this land is fruitful, good for living, but from other side so many wars and everything. So they call this land of honey and blood and that's what the word balkan mean.
Speaker 3:I thought it meant mountain sweet and uh and that, so that is mixed uh, and even winston churchill called this area, uh, like a bomb who is ready to explode. Because, uh, that is how I was always situation here, and reason is because this is like door for europe. Historically, this was all for europe. So when you look at this area, all tribes or nation who wanted to come to europe from asia or africa, they crossed through balkan. All tribes who wanted to go to Asia, to other direction, this was again their way to Asia. And all tribes who came from the area of Russia, from steppes of Russia again, this was door for Europe. So this was constantly place where was conflict between different tribes, different nations?
Speaker 3:When you look at my city, novi Sad, there was a conflict between different tribes, different nations. Even when you look at my city, novi Sad, and the history of Novi Sad until the last two centuries, before that, every 50, 60 years was a different tribe who lived here. So every 50, 60, 100 years was a different nation, different tribe who conquered this land, took from others and was nation, different tribe who conquered this land, take from other and was constantly, constantly war. That is reason why it's a land of honey and blood and through centuries we learn to fight against each other. So that is century of constant wars, war, constant revenge. And one of the reasons why we fight was religion. Again, this is like border area of Europe and through Balkan, going line between Catholicism and Orthodoxy. So this was like border between these two influences and they fight between each other. And later Islam came like third factor and that was constant fight between each other. And later Islam came like third factor and that was constant fight between these three religion on influence here.
Speaker 2:So Islam Orthodoxy and Catholicism. I have a question. You said that the reason for these wars was religion, but at the same time, there is a perspective that the reason for these wars was the fight for national identity, in which religion was used as the means of creating that national identity between the tribes. What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 3:But that is connected here. Here national identity is strictly aligned with the religion. So, like Serbs are Orthodox Croats, they are Catholic Bosnians, they are Muslim Macedonians, they are Orthodox Greeks, they are Orthodox Albanians, especially in Kosovo, especially on Kosovo, they are Muslims. So that was an important part of national identity and again, that has deep historical reason. Especially in the time of this war and later in the Ottoman occupation, so many people who accept Islam were treated like traitors from other their nation and they bring even bigger division between us, especially like Serb and Bosnian. We speak same language, we have same names and only what is different between Serb and Bosnian is religion, nothing else. Culture is same, everything is same, only this religion.
Speaker 2:What about Croats and Serbs?
Speaker 3:Again, only religion. Same language, different between names, but not big. We can understand each other. We speak the same language, we have the same culture, but the difference was religion. They are Catholics, serbs are Orthodox. They are Catholics, serbs are.
Speaker 2:Orthodox, so the only foundation for the national identity of these countries. Now, the Greeks. They're distinctly different, though, because their language is different, you know. So they would be considered a different ethnic group. Would you agree with that?
Speaker 3:Between Greek is language Language. They're Orthodox like Serbs. But you have a conflict between them and Albanians. That is mainly a question of religion and other factor of conflict is historical. You know that some don't want to accept that other nations different from them, like that is between Bulgarian and Macedonian, bulgarian will always say Macedonia. Or Bulgarian and Macedonian will say no, we are different. So it's again complicated Balkan things, mix of different historical influence. Or Greek will always say Macedonian nation don't exist. That is Greek nation. You know who speaks Slavic language. So again one more factor for fight.
Speaker 2:So this is interesting, though, you know, there are significant differences between Christianity and Islam If we look at the distinctions between Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy. In essence, these are both Christian religions, and so seemingly there shouldn't be such a great conflict between the people that follow this religion.
Speaker 3:So then, that is logic but not practice. That is logic, but not practice.
Speaker 2:Well then, the next step from that would be, if you look at what Christianity implores us to do and to be, there shouldn't be room for this type of conflict that produces bloody wars and everything that has happened in the Balkans. So what would, in your opinion, would be the solution to that situation, because, obviously, politically, there is no solution.
Speaker 3:No solution, yes. So first, I think mix of religion and national identity is toxic. Really, it's important to separate from that narrative, you know. So for me that was the main reason why I am evangelical, because I really didn't like that national feeling in the orthodoxy or in Catholicism. So if they understand that we are brothers, that is the solution. They will stop to fight each other. But if they treat themselves like heretics, you know between themselves, they will fight against them because they are your enemy. I think that is important, but I don't see that as possible really in Orthodoxy or in Catholicism. That will never happen with them. Only when some big miracle, I don't know revival, if this happened, but in this moment, no. If you listen, like every Easter leaders of the church will have their Easter sermon and more than half is political. They speak against Croats, like in Serbia, speak against Croats, like in Serbia, speak against Croats against Albanians. So a lot of politics and small amount of Christianity.
Speaker 2:Well, something interesting that you said that the mix of religion and national identity is toxic. I think this is a very important subject, even for Americans, and specifically American Christians. So would you say that nationalism in itself is bad and incompatible with true Christianity? What is your opinion? I don't think there's a right or wrong answer here. So what is your opinion as a pastor? So what is?
Speaker 3:your opinion. As a pastor, I'm trying to make difference between patriotism and nationalism. We try to make difference. One is to love your nation and other things when you think that you are better than others. So nationalism is more than love. You think that you are better than others and what is the consequence? That others are lower than you, not worthy like you, and that is really toxic, toxic message. When you treat others like lower grade, you're ready to make some evil things to them because they are not worthy and so yeah, so I can say nationalism, how I think is, is very bad. But to love your nation, that is good, but you don't treat others like somebody who is there are so many more questions to this conversation, but I want us to talk about Serbia.
Speaker 2:So I don't want to go on the rabbit trail, but you know we have a year of election and it's really a very touchy subject, you know, and I would love to have a whole other conversation about that. So I know you are a patriot of this country. You're a true patriot of your country, of Serbia. So, for people who are not familiar with Serbia, what would you think are the most important things they should know about your country?
Speaker 3:This is a beautiful country, but, like all Balkans, it's a mix of blood and honey.
Speaker 2:I love that mix of blood and honey.
Speaker 3:When you look at people who are famous, they are always ready to fight. Our famous sport is Nov Djokovic, and when you look at his tennis match, he always fights to the last breath. You know, and usually changes the direction of the match, and that is with all our spouse. So so we are. We are warriors nation. I can say that this, that is something that is our, our characteristic here. Nature is beautiful, a lot of history. This is area where, through centuries, so many things happen, like 16 caesars.
Speaker 3:Roman was born here in Serbia, in this area, where is Serbia now? Around my city, nine of them In Serbia was born in the time that this was Roman Roman Empire, but was born great Constantine, who made this toleration to Christians, stopped persecution, kiro Zatila, the great whip of God. Mongols, huns you can find some influence here in this area. So a lot of different influences and a mix of different nations. In Serbia there don't live only Serbs, but many others like Slovak, Hungarian, albanians, croats, bosnians, I don't know. I think 22 ethnic groups who lived here for centuries. So that is typical here for Balkan, this mix of different tribes.
Speaker 3:Religiously, 85% will say they are Orthodox. They are not churchgoers. Less than 1% will go in Orthodox Church, 5% are Catholic, 3% are Muslim and less than 1% will say they are Protestant. Evangelical Christian is less than one percent will say they're Protestant. Evangelical Christian is less than 0.1 percent. If you say that in Serbia live now six and a half million people less than 7,000, I think are evangelical, like newborn believers Wow, that's a very small number. Like newborn believers.
Speaker 2:Wow, that's a very small number. So let's talk about the trend. Would you say that the evangelical Christianity came to Serbia mostly at the fall of communism?
Speaker 3:No, no, they came here before between two wars, first and second. Between two wars first and second. So if you spoke about Pentecostals, I think three or four years after Azusa, the first Pentecostal church was opened here in Vojvodina. About this longer here, I think that I don't know 150 or 200 years here. So because this is a lot of mix of different nations, usually groups who were persecuted somewhere here was possible to find some peace, but growth of evangelical Christianity happened after the fall of communism. So I can say, maybe in the former Yugoslavia, maybe maybe was a few thousand evangelical believers, and after the fall of communism it was different.
Speaker 2:So then there was that growth, but then it slowed down.
Speaker 3:Yeah, because of war. So in the same time when communism slowed down, here war started, and that is different when you compare with other Eastern European countries who had in that time huge revival. Here revival started and was stopped by war. So we stay on that number because of war.
Speaker 2:Well, the war now has been over for 30 years, 20 years, 30. 30 years. So what is happening spiritually in Serbia today?
Speaker 3:On some level. For us it's never over here in Balkan. So hate is still deep. When you travel to Bosnia, you can feel that, because in Bosnia Serbs cross Muslims and they hate each other. Kosovo is the same example Between Serbs and Albanians there is deep hate. So I can say that we are in the same example. Between Serbs and Albanians there is deep hate. So I think I can say that we are in the frozen conflict and the only reason that here is peace, I think because you are forced to be in peace, especially in Bosnia and Kosovo. So that is one reason what spiritually happened I can speak about evangelical Christians Number is going down.
Speaker 3:Why? Because many emigrate to Europe and America. I think number is around 5,000 that we need. So for church, who was like 10,000 people big when you lost 5,000, that was devastating and many of the people were leaders or young people. So I can say that we are numbers going down. We're slowly recovering now. What is good is that in some areas there were no churches before. Now we have churches and we are very active in the mission. That is very positive. We try to open churches in every city and more and more churches are opening, but central Serbia, especially before. It was no, no, absolutely no evangelical Christian there. Slowly we are starting with some mission in the Muslim part. The name of that part is Sanjak. It's five big cities there. Then you go there. It's like Saudi Arabia. It's not big difference. It's very strict Muslim. But slowly we started there. So that is positive. We are very active in the in the work with the group who are vulnerable underprivileged communities yeah, that is good word, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know like for our church.
Speaker 3:We are church of 200 people here in novi sad, but our government, government, novi sad, told us that we are solving around 30 percent of all emergency situation in novi sad. We we were shocked, you know. So for homeless people who lost their homes, something. So this small church, 200 people, 30% of all intervention in the city we saw and helped people. Or with drug addicts huge churches are very active with helping drug addicts.
Speaker 3:This spring I was in government we have special office who are fighting against drug addiction in Serbia and they invite all organization for Serbia two or three times in the year when we have like strategic meeting what to do in the future, and on that meeting was maybe 40 people and 25 or 30 was evangelical Christian. So I can say that evangelical Christians do the biggest job in helping drug addicts and stopping addiction. Now the church is very active in fighting against gambling because that is like a huge disease now in this area. So that is very positive. So with Roma community, again, that is a big miracle what the church do there, because here they are very marginalized and only who opened doors for them are evangelicals and that influenced all communities, cities. You know, if it's Roma church in some city, children are educated, they're finishing school, they have health insurance. Everything is, you know, in good order. You know, if it's not church there, they live in slums area. So I can say that it's like some spiritual picture. We are small but very active.
Speaker 2:I think you are a phenomenal example to any church around the world where you know not only you share the word, but you also address the community needs in action, and these actions speak for themselves to the outsiders, and so that's why you're so loved and respected in the communities even outside of Serbia, because you are literally being what the church is called to do Not only preach the love of Christ, but show the love of Christ.
Speaker 3:Oh, yeah, that is our calling.
Speaker 2:Essentially, I believe that this is what's going to help bridge that gap, you know, between the evangelical Christians and the cultural perception of what evangelical Christians are. Because, you know, often in countries where Eastern Orthodoxy is a predominant religion, there is a negative view of evangelical Christians and maybe even perception of evangelical Christianity being a cult. Does that exist in Serbia?
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, yeah, Even more than in other countries. When there was war in 93, 94, and 95, here was really big persecution because evangelical Christians we had really good connection with the West, so one of the enemies of our country was evangelicals. So it was really hard period for us. In the state news they spoke that we were drinking blood, that we sacrificed children, that we were taking property, we were part of the archers. We will take all your property from you. So, many, many terrible lies. They spoke about Satanistic cult and mentioned our names in that context. It was really difficult and there was constantly attack on our buildings or on our people. Many, many was arrested Constantly. Secret police come to our meetings and now it's better, so it's not anymore official persecution, but that picture stays in the mind of people. So we are not only sect or cult but we are dangerous. You know, if you come here, who knows what can happen to you. So that is a big problem for us.
Speaker 2:So how should we pray for Serbia? What are the main points that you would think we should lift to God as we pray for the breakthrough and revival of Christianity in Serbia?
Speaker 3:For me, you know, this opening of new churches is really really big miracle. I mean our church. Now we are active in four or five places. We have in our network of churches, protestant Christian Fellowship, one church in the center of Serbia. They have small groups, I don't know, five or six cities around villages. So really good things happening. And I see in the, when I see picture from the baptism on the social network, I see the number of people who was baptized growing and interesting, many of them coming to Christ through videos on the YouTube, even from America. You know we have a few people in the church who became Christian through internet and later they find, oh, you know, it have a few people in the church who became Christian through the internet and later they find, oh, you know, it's not a church like that. So they become part of us. So pray for that. You know.
Speaker 3:I think in our context it is like revival, because new churches are born, things are happening. This work with the drug addicts is a huge blessing for us because they accept Christ. That is what we do in the rehab center. We give them Christ, a message of hope, and later many of them becoming leaders of the churches. That is a fountain of influence in this area. That is really good things. So pray for that, or work with Roma. That is really, again, something that is so wonderful to see. I teach in their schools and I don't speak Roma language, but I have really good friendship with the readers, so I'm one of their professors and when I teach future church planters I see zeal to reach new Roma group, new Roma community. They're planning to open, I think, 500 churches in the next 10 years and they want to have on every small Roma community to have evangelical church. That is something wonderful.
Speaker 2:Praise God Now. New churches require new leaders, so how do you train the leaders to be the new pastors of these churches?
Speaker 3:Usually here through Bible school With Roma community. They Usually here through Bible school, like with Roma community. They have their Roma Bible school. That is, I think, two years program. They have one here on Balkan and one in German because we have a lot of our Roma people there. So we teach like one month here somewhere on Balkan and one month we're teaching in Germany Same subject, so they train them for basic information. Later they usually go to university in Croatia. They have good programs. So we try to organize different schools to equip churches.
Speaker 2:And what about for Serbian church leaders?
Speaker 3:For us, it's okay to go in Croatia If they want to have theological education. In this moment, Nošek is an excellent university, Really good.
Speaker 2:So we need to pray for the start of new churches and for more Christians in Serbia to feel the call to be the leaders and start these churches. How can we pray personally for you, Bera, you and Mira?
Speaker 3:This is a difficult question. I have some, but you ask me. I have some health issues now in this moment and I will have operation in the next month. They find me some changes in the kidneys and, thanks God, that was miracle, that was fine, so early stage. So but you know it's not easy for us. I'm really thankful God. This is all God told me you. It's a miracle that we find this so early and probably is nothing dangerous but can be dangerous. So that is really personal well Pastor.
Speaker 2:Vera, you are way too valuable in the perspective of God's kingdom, and I know he is the ultimate healer, he's the great physician. In fact, I'm going to ask all of our listeners right now to join me in prayer as we pray for you right now, lord Jesus. We just thank you, father, that you have your servant in Serbia, in the Balkan region, who is sold out to you wholeheartedly. We thank you for his work and for his ministry, serbia and the Balkan region, who is sold out to you wholeheartedly. We thank you for his work and for his ministry and what he has already accomplished through his church in Novi Sad. All the outreaches, father, these addicts who are finding freedom in you because of his calling and his ministry, lord. So we lift to you right now his health, father, and his ministry, lord. So we lift to you right now his health, father, we lift to you the surgery that is taking place, father, and we speak your complete and total healing, father.
Speaker 2:We know that you are the great physician, father, and whether you choose to heal him through surgery or by your miraculous touch, we give you praise and glory for Pastor Bearer's health and long years of life and service to you. Lord Jesus, we ask for your provision over him, father, in everything that he does. Lord, Let everything his hands touch prosper and flourish. Lord Jesus, we speak your encouragement over him, father, your strength over him, your joy and your peace over him and his family and his ministry, and we ask this in the mighty name of Jesus. Amen, amen, thank you. Thank you so much for this conversation. We can't wait to be with you next year and join forces once again in bringing the gospel, bringing Jesus, his love and his freedom to Serbia. Thank you so much.
Speaker 3:Thank you.
Speaker 2:While it is noble to love your country, philippians 3.20 reminds us of our true citizenship, which means not only our own country matters, but so do those far removed from us by distance and culture, even those that may not be friendly to our own. When we allow nationalism to dominate our emotions, we hinder the well-being of our own nation. This is a very important reminder for each of us. The gospel is the only solution to conflicts and issues that seem unsolvable, and the Great Commission calls each of us to step out of our comfort zones, leaving behind the familiar, so that people across the world can become citizens of God's kingdom and be equipped to build a better future in their own countries. God's kingdom and be equipped to build a better future in their own countries. Perhaps today's conversation about Serbia has stirred something in your heart.
Speaker 2:If you are a follower of Christ, consider whether Christ's invitation to make disciples is for you. Visit our website, rfwmaorg, to discover how you can get involved through short-term missions. Again, the website is rfwmaorg. To discover how you can get involved through short-term missions. Again, the website is rfwmaorg. And please don't forget to pray for Serbia and for Pastor Bera. Until next time, I'm Helen Todd.
Speaker 1:Limitless Spirit Podcast is produced by World Missions Alliance. We believe that changed lives change lives. If your life was transformed by Christ, you are equipped to help others experience this transformation. Christ called his followers to make disciples across the world. World Missions Alliance gives you an opportunity to do this through short-term missions in over 32 countries across the globe. If you want to help those who are hurting and hopeless and discover your greater purpose in serving, check out our website, rfwmaorg, and find out how to get involved.