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Limitless Spirit
For the seekers of a greater purpose in life, opportunities to serve in missions and personal growth in Christ with host Helen Todd.
Limitless Spirit
The other side of suffering
Facing life's toughest trials can either strengthen or shatter one's faith.
Long-term suffering often leaves us yearning for miraculous interventions, yet this doesn't happen to everyone who cries out to God.
In this episode, host Helen Todd explores an incredible journey of finding purpose in and through suffering with author Ben Locke. Ben opens up about his severe illness that abruptly halted his promising career as a collegiate athelete, overcoming the trauma of sexual abuse and how he found solace in writing, a therapeutic outlet that eventually led to his journal being published by Zondervan.
Through Ben's heartfelt narrative, this episode navigates the immense struggle of maintaining belief amidst personal crises. Ben shares the raw and often painful process of stripping away superficial identities to discover a deeper connection with God. Listen to his candid reflections on wrestling with feelings of anger, loss, and confusion, and learn how his gradual journey towards true understanding of faith offers a relatable and comforting perspective for those dealing with similar hardships.
Ben's story reveals a profound truth about enduring pain and finding divine purpose. This episode highlights the delicate balance of living with chronic pain and emotional trials, emphasizing the realization of God's sufficiency and grace.
You can purchase Ben Locke's book "In our suffering, Lord, be near" here: https://www.amazon.com/Our-Suffering-Lord-Be-Near/dp/0310465117
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Welcome to Limitless Spirit, a weekly podcast with host Helen Todd, where she interviews guests about pursuing spiritual growth, discovering life's purpose through serving others and developing a deeper faith in Christ.
Speaker 2:Welcome to Limitless Spirit, a podcast about living a purposeful life in Christ. Life is a bumpy journey and there are seasons that can be extremely challenging, especially when they involve prolonged suffering and pain. Whether it is a chronic illness or grief over loss of a loved one, the pain that does not have a quick resolution can challenge our faith, our relationships, our hope. It can either drive you closer to God or away from him. What is the deciding factor in how we respond to suffering? Are there secrets to endurance through it? These are the questions I discuss in today's interview with Ben Locke. His first and only book so far was published by Zondervan this year and has resonated with thousands of readers who are dealing with the isolation and the challenges of prolonged suffering. Hello, ben, welcome to the Limitless Spirit. How are you today?
Speaker 3:I'm doing pretty well, Helen. Thank you for having me. I'm happy to be here.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm very excited to talk to you about your book, because I think you have touched on a very important subject no-transcript.
Speaker 3:I never really set out to do that. I talk a little bit about this in the book, I think. But I think there's something beautiful about that I was never really setting out to write a book. I didn't really wake up one day and say today's the day I'm going to start writing my story and kind of chronicling what's been going on in my life.
Speaker 3:I started writing out of a place of necessity. I got very, very sick because of some things that had happened to me and my body sort of just shut down, and so I ended up in a place where, physically, I was on bedrest for about two and a half years, and so I had gotten sick enough to the point where writing was really one of the only ways I could express myself. It was one of the only things I could do. And so not only that, but really the fact that I was just writing sort of to express myself, it was sort of a means of therapy for me more than anything. And so that's really how the process of writing started and it's now become something which is really exciting and really great. But that was really not my intention in the first place.
Speaker 2:And in your bio you mentioned that there was some kind of divine intervention or an unusual experience that caused this book to even be published. Let's talk about that. I love stories like that.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So as, as I mentioned, I had a notebook. Basically I was just journaling, I was, I was keeping track of my thoughts in a journal, I was I was writing my prayers down, and I got through that journal, literally filled up every page, kind of put it, put it to the side, and a couple months later I gave it to my sister. Me and her are very close. I gave it to her, I was like, hey, I wrote some stuff I would love for you to have this and just read it. And she ended up.
Speaker 3:Shortly after that, she moved to a different city, a different state kind of a couple of states from where I live here in Tennessee. And about a year after that I reached out to her and I was like, hey, do you still have that notebook that I gave you? And, sure enough, she was like, yeah, it's on my bedside table, it's on a shelf in my room. I read it all the time and I love it. And so she sent it back to me and the process of getting it into the hands of the publisher that I ended up with, which was HarperCollins, was really just crazy.
Speaker 3:I explored self-publishing, I explored all these different options and ultimately what led to getting it to the publisher was just a series of me reaching out to some folks and getting one person sort of led to the next person, and so I didn't realize it at the time. Now I do, now that I've learned a little bit more about the publishing industry. But that process is very rare, it's very unique to do that, and so it was really. You know, god had plans for me that I just did not. I was not aware of at all at the time.
Speaker 2:Indeed, you know, for a first time, author to be published by a very well-known publisher is a huge deal. So that alone is an indication in my mind that God was behind it, and also that the book is very, very good. So your life journey started seemingly pretty bright. You were a collegiate athlete, obviously had a successful path in sports, so tell us a little bit about this part of your journey.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I was a soccer player my whole life. I started playing soccer pretty much as soon as I could walk. I was three or four years old and, to be totally honest with you, it picked up pretty quickly. I was playing kind of at the highest level of competition by the time I was six or seven, and that really carried me all the way through my younger years. And then, once I got to middle school, high school that's sort of the time where when you're playing competitive sports, it's like, okay, you're going to be able to play at the next level or you're not, and usually that's a college scholarship and then hopefully go play professional. And so that's the trajectory that I was on.
Speaker 3:And actually when I was 16, I was going into my junior year of high school my family decided to move. So we were in Northeast Ohio, decided to move to the South, and the area we were moving to had no, it just was not a soccer area no-transcript started to fall off slowly but surely a little bit for me, but it was a process of getting injured. And then I was actually experiencing sexual abuse at the hands of my trainer because of my injuries. And then one injury led to the next and one you know, so forth and so on, and so that's without getting into too much detail Now. I'm sure we'll come back to that. That was. That was sort of how my soccer story played out.
Speaker 2:It's interesting because I think that when a person has a natural gift or ability or talent, you know, like soccer or athletic ability In your case, you feel sort of favored by God. You know, you have to recognize. I don't know, Were you a Christian as you were growing up? Did you know the Lord?
Speaker 3:No, yeah, well, it's interesting. I think those are two different questions. I think that I thought I did. I believed in God is sort of how I talk about it a lot. I believed in God, sort of like I know somebody on TV who I've never met before, and so I had this notion that I was walking with God. And it wasn't until my life really started to get difficult and I started to lose things and I started to be stripped of things. That I realized very quickly actually I don't know God at all. I do not know who he is. I don't think he knows who I. Well, he knows who I am, but I don't know who he is.
Speaker 3:And, as you mentioned, not only do I think we get this notion that we're favored when we're having success in the world, but also that can so quickly become our identity. And that's exactly what happened to me Soccer and I don't think I knew it consciously, but subconsciously it was everything to me. I was a soccer player and so if my career was going well, I was doing well and I was favored, as you mentioned and then, as soon as things started to not go well, it was like, okay, well, who am I outside of the sport. What am I, what do people think of me? And so it's so easily becomes your identity, and that's what happened to me.
Speaker 2:And so I think it adds I mean, suffering is not easy for anyone, but it adds to your suffering knowing that your life was going in this upward trajectory and all of a sudden it takes a deep dive. It had to be an additional trauma knowing that, all of a sudden, you're not the favored one. If nothing else, you are really being punished for something that you're not aware of, by God maybe and it's interesting because here there are two paths that the person can take. You know you either it either brings you closer to God and takes you on a journey towards God, or it drives you away and puts you on a completely different and maybe even destructive path. So what is that deciding point? Because I think this is a choice that each one of us makes when we unexpectedly are thrown into a turmoil or crisis in life. What is the deciding point there?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's a fantastic question and it's interesting for me because I feel like I chose both. I've had periods in my life where I chose both. So I look at the last 10 years I'm 27 years old, so it's been about 10 years since I left the house and at first, when things started to go wrong, I chose to turn my back on the Lord. So my first injury and sort of when things initially began to fall apart, I was seeking identity and opportunities and meaning in the world. I turned to worldly things, to relationships, to vices and all the sorts, and so that was my first attempt at trying to respond to sort of the trauma and the difficulty that I was facing. And then things just continued to happen and continue to sort of pile on to one another. That eventually three, four, five, six really severe, to be totally honest, personal life situations happened, all culminating in a car accident, was actually sort of the last nail in the coffin for me, and to the point where I physically could not get out of bed, and so it was.
Speaker 3:That was sort of the second point that you mentioned, which is like, okay, I have to decide if I'm going to choose something like the Lord or I'm going to choose the world. It's really a matter of life and death for me. Now it's gotten that extreme, and so that was the decision to say, okay, if those are my two options, I'm going to pursue the Lord, because if it's not the Lord, I don't know how I'm going to get through the day. That's how extreme the circumstances I got, and so sometimes I think, to be totally honest, that's what God allows. God allows us to go to those places in order to show up.
Speaker 2:That's interesting. You said life or death. You know, I'm in my personal devotions, I'm on the book of Proverbs and you know, on the part chapter eight, about wisdom and how, Lady Wisdom says that those who choose folly, they love death over life. And so is it. I wonder, is it what you love more in the end, at the depth of your being? Do you love life more or you just pursue death? You know, maybe that's kind of the guiding point, but you must have had an. Was it an encounter, like one grand moment, or was it a path, a chain of events?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it was not a moment. It was not a moment and, to be totally honest, I think again now that I'm a few years into this, I can look back on things a little bit more and for me it was a wrestling. I had to wrestle and wrestle and wrestle daily. It was a fight. It was a fight for why is this happening? How can this be good? I'm so sick. I was angry Again.
Speaker 3:I think there was years of things that had just been stored up, and to be so physically restrained was so challenging for me. I was playing a Division I college soccer game and then two months later I was in bed and couldn't get out of bed, and so there was such an extreme that I would say was a couple of years probably, of just wrestling with my faith and trying to rectify and understand what was going on, and so I didn't have really a come to Jesus moment. I think God was patient with me and he was intentional just in the time that it took for me to wrestle through some of those things. So no, it wasn't really a light bulb moment. It was more of a. We're going to wrestle day and night for weeks, months and years, and eventually that sort of wrestling led to me being very, very humbled in the end by Christ.
Speaker 2:I think that's what makes your story and your book so appealing. Because, yes, there are those aha moments and encounters and they're very valuable. They're sort of this miraculous intervention, you know, on God's part, but for most of us it's just like that. It's wrestling. Nothing changes overnight and it takes endurance and perseverance and willingness to stick with it. And you know it resonates with so many people who deal with chronic illness or maybe a prolonged sickness of a loved one, where they have to care for a loved one. You know that endurance and pain is a huge encouragement to people. So what would you tell a person? What are some of the most encouraging things that you can tell a person who is facing a prolonged crisis or trial?
Speaker 3:Yeah, you touched on a big piece of it, which is that one you're not alone. I think people just constantly need to be hearing that you're not alone. It doesn't mean that my circumstance is the same as another person's circumstance. That's not really what it's about. It is about the fact, though, that you're not alone, and I think that the other really important thing you mentioned is that it doesn't often look the way that you expect it to look. I, I.
Speaker 3:There were so many moments where I was like can I just have a breakthrough, can I just have a miraculous healing? Or? Or, you know, the clouds form and the light come into my room and I'm, you know, floating, or whatever. Um and so the truth of the matter, though, is that very frequently, it's the opposite. Very frequently, it is a process of wrestling. It's a lot of doubt.
Speaker 3:I had so much doubt for so long I was asking questions. I was trying to figure out why I was so angry and why I was so bitter about things that had happened years ago, and so that's one of the most encouraging things for me, and that I like to be really candid and honest about, is that there were days and weeks and months, and probably even years where I was like I'm so angry and I don't understand, and there's still, even today. There are so many moments where I'm like I don't get this. Why can't it just look this way, or why can't it change quicker, or why can't the outcome be different? And so my hope, though, is, in communicating all these things, is that God is still able, and God is still good, and God is still sovereign. In the midst of all of that, in the midst of the wrestling, in the midst of the question asking, he's still God and he's still looking out for you, even if it doesn't feel that way.
Speaker 2:Did you have a moment? You know, I had a brief encounter with that. I obviously can't relate to the journey that took several years, but I had a piece of shingles that lasted a month, you know, and it was like the most intense physical pain I've ever experienced. I literally had to dig on the deepest level of my strength physical and emotional just to make it through it, and you know, that's when I leaned the most on the Lord. And so, when it all was over, I had a moment when I looked back and I missed those moments of pain because of the intensity of my closeness with the Lord. So have you ever had that moment where you looked back at your journey and found beauty in that?
Speaker 3:Absolutely, absolutely. You said it really well, and what's important for me too is I'm still not on the other side of what I'm going through. My some of my symptoms are very persistent and could be around for the rest of my life. I don't really know how that's all going to look, and so I've gotten to a point now where what you're talking about, in my perspective, is God's grace. It's a form of God's grace, and, and what's really important too is is we talk about and ask for and pray for, refinement. That's a word that people ask for God, refine me. And we need to be careful about that prayer, because the process of refining, just like you said, is a painful one, and God is a jealous God.
Speaker 3:God is so good and loves us so much that if there is something that is intervening in our lives, if there's something that's coming between us and him and the intimacy that he is able to and allowed to have with us, then sometimes a form of his grace is stripping us of that very thing. I think of Abraham and Isaac. I mean, he can even promise things, divine things, good things, can become objects of our worship. And so, god, I've had to come to a place where I have to remind myself. A form of God's grace and his goodness is to come into my life and strip me of those things, because the result has been Ben, I'm still enough for you. You lost this thing that you thought you needed. I'm still enough. You lost this thing that you thought you needed. I'm still enough. And so that's a form of his grace. Now, that doesn't negate the pain. Sometimes I'll still look back and be like, well, couldn't we have done it another way? But you said it. The intimacy is impossible to replicate otherwise.
Speaker 2:It's coming to the point to where you're able to say, even though it was worth it. You know and sometimes I don't know it's really so you said you're still facing some of the symptoms and your journey in this is not over. Have you come to the point of turning it over to God and saying, okay, god, even if it's an ongoing thing, you are enough? Or you feel like you're still working on this?
Speaker 3:Honestly, I think that's a lifelong process. I think that's going to be a lifelong process for me. If I'm sick for the rest of my life, or I'm dealing with some of these things for the rest of my life, then I think that'll be the case for the rest of my life. There are days when I wake up and I'm like Lord, I don't want to do this, I do not want to continue to bear this. I don't want to be in pain anymore. I don't want to be uncomfortable anymore. Why can't we do it a different way? So the beauty, though, and the power in that, is that that's our humanity, that is the reality of my human nature. I am not capable enough. I can't sustain myself. I go back to Jesus in the garden all the time.
Speaker 3:There's something really beautiful that happens, where even Jesus, who is literally God incarnate, is saying if there's another way, can we please go that other way, but not my will be done, but yours. So there's that caveat. That's necessary and it's crucial, but we can't expect, I don't think it's reasonable or fair to expect human beings sinful, broken, weak human beings to live their entire lives saying God, no matter what your will be done, you're going to have those moments where you're like, please, can we do this another way? Can we please do this another way? And so that still is the case for me. But there's sort of this underlying thing that wasn't here before, which is Lord, yet your will be done. Whatever that is, your will be done Whatever that is, your, will be done.
Speaker 2:So what gives even more depth to your story is that it's not just about physical suffering, which is, you know, it happens to us and we can't blame another person for that. We could blame God, but you know it's just something that happens. But you have another level to your journey where you have experienced sexual abuse from a person that you trusted, that person who was supposed to be your mentor. So you know, you've also gone through this deep emotional suffering that probably took a journey of healing and forgiveness, and so let's talk about this aspect of your story.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's very layered and it's very complicated. And you're right, I think, even if that's not something a person goes through, physical pain so often leads to emotional and kind of mental strain and struggles. And so there is something that happens when you trust a person and that trust is taken advantage of in such an extreme way. And I think that the power and sort of reconcile and restore a level of intimacy and how am I supposed to be vulnerable if someone kind of took that and preyed on it a little bit? And so, again, that was a process for me of a lot of failures.
Speaker 3:I tried to find those things in other people, I tried to find them in relationships, I tried to find them in myself, and time and time again they failed me. I couldn't get myself to be secure again. I couldn't find vulnerability, I couldn't find it, and so that was absolutely a years-long process of being forced to say, okay, the only place that I can feel secure is in Christ. If I get my security from the God of the universe, who created me to be this way and to experience certain things, then I'm secure in Him. And if I'm secure in him, I'm okay being vulnerable to other people, I'm okay, trusting other people, because ultimately my trust isn't in that person and in that relationship. It's with the Lord. So but again, that's that's still a challenge for me. It's a really, really complicated thing to experience.
Speaker 2:So, again, this too is a long journey. It's not an overnight process. Okay, lord, you know, heal me of this trauma, make me whole again. So both sides of your journey are all about endurance. So do you feel like you have discovered some secrets or tips that you can share with our listeners to that spiritual endurance?
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know, what comes to mind is there is something very painful but beautiful about sort of reckoning with the belief that you and I have in eternity and in what's to come after this life. I think that that's the flip side of suffering. Is, when you suffer in a certain way, all of a sudden you're like do I really believe that what God says about what's to come after this life is true, or do I not? And so the wrestling with that has been incredibly profound, because I've suffered in such a way where I long for that now. I long for my body to be healed, and the reality is it might not happen on this side of eternity, and so I'm eagerly awaiting that Paul talks about, eagerly awaiting the resurrection and the restoration of our bodies, and so that's really beautiful, and I would tell people it's beautiful to wrestle with that question, because a lot of people don't.
Speaker 3:A lot of people are so secure and safe and healthy that they're not thinking about that. In fact, they're hoping that their life will last as long as it can and they're afraid of what's to come on the other side. So there's this balance between that perspective, but also okay, but if God still woke me up this morning and I still have breath in my lungs. There's a purpose with what I'm going through right now. So it's not that we long for eternity in such a way that we hate our present circumstances and we say, you know, I don't want to give myself to anything here and in this world. It's actually the opposite. We're longing for something with eternity, and if God is perfectly sovereign, then there's still a purpose with your life carrying on today. So there's a really interesting balance there.
Speaker 2:That's very powerful. So, for a person who is contemplating on reading your book, can you give maybe a few key points that they should expect to receive as a benefit, aside from it being beautiful poetry, because some of the people who read your book call you a modern day psalmist, you know. So there is treasure in that. But what do you think? How do you think they can benefit from reading your book?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I think one of the one of the things I found in my experiences there was there were moments in times where I felt I was in so much pain, I was so overwhelmed that I had no words. I would try to pray or try to verbalize what I was feeling, and I literally could not come up with the words. That's actually when I started to write, and so I want and hope that the book functions that way. For a lot of people is that in that moment when you're like I don't even know what to say or do with what I'm going through right now, you can open the book and the words that I've written can sort of become your own words. So that's really how I want the book to function.
Speaker 3:A couple other things, though.
Speaker 3:I mean this is not the type of book that's like chapter one, the story starts, and chapter 10, the story ends.
Speaker 3:I think it's really kind of a nebulous project that's always evolving. I think one day you might find yourself in part two of the book and then the next day you might be in part seven or eight, and not only is that important to know, but that's the reality of suffering and pain and grief and loss is that you might think you're here today and then tomorrow you wake up and you're like, all of a sudden I'm feeling despair today and I was just joyful, you know, an hour ago, and that can be the way things go. So I hope people use it that way as well, where it's like you might be here one day and back here the next day and you might want to return to the same prayer 10 different times. And so it's just a little unique in how the book is structured and how, I hope, people interact with it. You can kind of go where you want to go and let your emotions and let the sort of structure of the book define that.
Speaker 2:Sounds to me very much like the book of Psalms in the Bible. It's all over the place, it is, it's a really good point.
Speaker 3:It's a really good point. I mean. You read one Psalm and it's like praise and everything's great. And then the next one is like where are you, lord? What's happening? And so I think again. I think that's an indication of that's. The reality of humanity is that's just how we are, and sometimes there's a lot of power in just being able to express those things in a very nonlinear way.
Speaker 2:And the benefit of it is that, as long as this emotion or experience, whether high or low, connects you with God and aligns you with Him, there is value in that and it's beneficial to you one way or the other. And so well, I have not read your book yet, but I'm looking forward to it, and I just want to encourage you. You know, it's quite extraordinary that this emotional outburst on paper is published, you know, and became a book, and so I want to encourage you to see what's next in your writing adventure, and so hopefully there will be many more to come.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I appreciate that, helen, and thank you, and that is. I couldn't agree more. The way God's chosen to use it is so unexpected. But I think that's kind of the beauty of the book as well, is there was not a whole lot of restraint used, it was just. This is truth, this is how I'm feeling, and so there's not a whole lot of editing and trying to cut it and trim it and all that. It's just a very honest indication and expression of a really deep, deeply painful time in my life. So I hope people can connect with that.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you so much for this conversation, and I'm going to post the link to your book on Amazon or I don't know if you would rather them come to your website, and I have no doubt that those of our listeners who will read it will enjoy it and benefit from it at the same time.
Speaker 3:Thank you. Thank you so much. I appreciate you having me on.
Speaker 2:Ben's journey through the loss of his promising athletic career, sexual abuse and illness that left him bedridden for two years is captured in what can be described as modern-day psalms that provide comfort, encouragement and hope. I hope you pick up his book In Our Suffering Lord Be Near. You can follow the link in the show notes, treat yourself to it or encourage someone you know who needs a boost right now. In the meantime, I could not help but think how our journeys, stories, even suffering, when shared with others, has this creative power of pointing people to Christ. There is redemption in knowing that what you have gone through can help someone else make the right choice in life. At World Missions Alliance, we believe that changed lives change lives, and the Great Commission is Christ's call to go and tell the story. If you want to find your purpose and the purpose to your suffering, go to the nations and make disciples. You can visit our website, rfwmaorg, to find opportunities to do so through short-term missions. Again, the website is rfwmaorg. Thank you for listening. Until next time.
Speaker 1:I'm Helen Todd. Your life was transformed by Christ. You are equipped to help others experience this transformation. Christ called his followers to make disciples across the world. World Missions Alliance gives you an opportunity to do this through short-term missions in over 32 countries across the globe. If you want to help those who are hurting and hopeless and discover your greater purpose in serving, check out our website rfwmaorg and find out how to get involved.