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Limitless Spirit
Feeling stuck in the daily grind? Longing for a spiritually rich and meaningful life? Limitless Spirit with Helen Todd is for those who crave a deeper faith, a greater purpose, and opportunities to serve beyond themselves. Through powerful stories and real conversations, this podcast explores how stepping out in faith—whether through mission trips, discipleship, or simply saying ‘yes’ to God—can change your life from surviving to thriving.
Limitless Spirit
Connecting History and Faith with Dr. Carroll
The episode revolves around the intersection of biblical artifacts that prove the historic value of the Word of God and the future of world missions. The conversation between host Helen Todd and renowned historian Dr. Scott Carroll emphasizes the importance of history in deepening one's faith. Dr. Scott Carroll shares insights into his extraordinary collection, highlighting how each artifact tells a story of God's word and mission throughout the ages.
• Overview of the Greater Purpose Conference in Branson, MO
• Significance of exploring rare Bible artifacts
• Dr. Scott Carroll's journey in curating biblical history
• Spiritual impact of ancient artifacts on modern faith
• Unique stories behind selected artifacts
• The challenges of acquiring and preserving ancient treasures
• Insights on who benefits most from the conference
• Importance of missions in the preservation of faith
• Final call to action for audience participation in the conference
The learn more about the Greater Purpose Conference and the Inspired Exhibit, go here: https://rfwma.org/greaterpurpose/
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Welcome to Limitless Spirit, a weekly podcast with host Helen Todd, where she interviews guests about pursuing spiritual growth, discovering life's purpose through serving others and developing a deeper faith in Christ.
Speaker 2:Hello and welcome to Limitless Spirit, the podcast where we explore the intersection of faith and daily life. I'm your host, helen Todd, and I'm so glad you're here with us today. Our life has a greater purpose that God has for each one of us, and if deepening your faith and living a more purposeful life is part of your New Year's resolution, we're less than three months away from the Greater Purpose Conference. It is hosted by World Missions Alliance and will take place April 9th, 10th and 11th in Branson, missouri, at the beautiful Thousand Hills Hotel. Inspired is the theme of the conference this year. It is really for anyone who needs a boost to truly live out your faith. If you're looking to acquire a vision that has no limits or overcome the fear of leaving comfort zone, it's a great event for you. If you have a lifelong dream of doing something more for God that you love and worship, if you have a heart for the Great Commission, this is a perfect event to attend.
Speaker 2:And this conference really stands out among many other Christian events because it combines the focus on the present and the future of missions with an extraordinary exhibit of some of the rarest archaeological discoveries that trace the history and the impact of the Bible through centuries. There's so much more happening at this conference and I'm going to highlight it after the interview, but in this episode we're diving into the highlights of this exhibit as I chat with Dr Scott Carroll, a world-renowned scholar, historian and the curator of rare Bible artifacts. In fact, I call him in this interview a Christian Indiana Jones. Dr Carroll is here to tell you what you can expect to see and experience while walking through his incredible collection of artifacts that will be on display at the Greater Purpose Conference. So grab a cup of coffee or tea and let's get started. Hello Scott, welcome to the Limitless Spirit. How are you today?
Speaker 3:I'm doing well, thanks, and I'm excited to be with you.
Speaker 2:I look forward to talking about our joint event that we're doing in just oh my goodness, what is it in? Just three months? It's coming up real quickly and it's Inspired Conference in Branson, missouri, that combines our annual missions event with your incredible exhibit of unique, ancient, rare Bible artifacts. So we're going to do our best today in our conversation to highlight your exhibit. And why would someone absolutely not want to miss the opportunity to come to the conference and see this exhibit? So first let's talk about you a little bit. So what inspired you to become the collector and the curator of these rare Bible artifacts?
Speaker 3:Right. Well, I came to faith in college to try to help people understand its trustworthiness and reliability. That led me into the study of not only the Bible but ancient and church history and ancient languages, which eventually led to a master's degree in church history and a PhD in something called ancient studies, which is basically the study of the ancient biblical world, languages associated with it and archaeology. And my career ministry began traditionally in the university and seminary and I taught collectively about 20 years that way. But because of my background in God's providence, I had been put in contact with collectors of rare items. They're around the world. These people have outstanding collections but oftentimes don't know exactly what they have, and so my background and training enabled me to help them understand, define what they have, understand its importance. This led then to a broader community.
Speaker 3:I began working with collectors in the 1990s, worked with the largest private collection at that time of biblically related things in the 1990s, worked with the largest private collection at that time of biblically related things in the world and directed that. I left the university In the 2000s I directed the Hobby Lobby Green Family Collection, which is the basis for the Museum of the Bible. So they had nothing, zero, and during my time with them they collected 63,000 items. So God allowed me to see and touch and handle all kinds of things that no one has been able, no one collectively, had been able to see, and I realized the privilege of that. It was a schooling for me and I wanted to use that for ministry, and so we partnered with private collectors and some things that we have of our own a small collection and put together a traveling exhibit that would be very focused on what we thought would be the most important spiritual issues surrounding the history of the Bible and its preservation.
Speaker 2:So, basically, to put it in a nutshell, scott, you are a Christian version of Indiana Jones.
Speaker 3:In a nutshell, I don't know, but someone said that In the 1990s we co-directed an excavation in the Sahara. But my interests were less in terms of working in the field like that and more in terms of discovery and identification and certainly the ministry aspect of it. But yes, some have made those connections, but they're not true.
Speaker 3:So, for those who are not familiar with your exhibit, let's talk about what makes your connection unique and significant that we choose to do so in any location, tell a unique story of how the Bible was put together, translated, preserved over history and the impact it's had. Of course, core to that is a story of missions. I mean it's Romans, chapter 10. The story of missions is the Word of God and proclaiming it, and so so much entwined in this narrative is the story of the creation of alphabets and teaching people to read and the translation of scripture. And so we wanted to put together, from items that we borrow, that are loaned to us, items that we have, a narrative that tells the story that the Bible is reliable, that tells a story that we have excellent evidence for it, that tells a story that has been copied accurately over time, that tells a story of missions and outreach and the expansion of the kingdom and tells the story that it's been preserved wonderfully by God. So each of the items that we select is part of that storytelling, the narration, and so we want to be in our case.
Speaker 3:The items are very carefully curated and they're not just haphazardly chosen. They're chosen specifically to relate to important theological issues, to underscore, so that a person leaving who's a person of faith will not only be inspired to read the Bible, but they'll read it with confidence, and that a person not a person of faith will have a new interest in exploring the message of the Bible. So the bottom line is that the things that a visitor will see at this exhibit cannot be seen anywhere else in the world. You can go to the British Museum, the British Library, to the Vatican, to Pierpont Morgan Library, to the Museum of the Bible, and they'll have similar things that overlap, and we'll have things that they have. But the whole collection of items that will be displayed will be one of a kind and they're not just put out and displayed. We have trained docents that spiritually and energetically interact with visitors so that, if they wish, they can know more about the items that are there. We really have a spiritual mission of what we do.
Speaker 2:I had the privilege of walking through the exhibit very quickly because it was the very last day. It was so jam-packed with people, but I was fortunate enough to have your personal tour of walking through it and I was just blown away by some of the artifacts. So, to highlight it to our listeners, what are some of the most extraordinary or rare pieces in the exhibit?
Speaker 3:Right, so happy to do that. So things are arranged chronologically relatively and they fall, for the upcoming conference, into five areas. The first area is the ancient world, and this includes ancient writings on clay tablets that date to the time of Abraham and earlier. They date to the time of Daniel and Nebuchadnezzar and they tell us about their world and they tell us about how it connects with the Bible and how the Bible is accurate and can be understood. So I would point to that.
Speaker 3:We have ancient non-biblical papyri, so early ancient paper made from plant material. We'll have an early fragment of classical writings like Homer's Iliad that was kind of like the Bible. In the ancient world. We have ancient seals from scribes. There are, I should mention, most. Everything is authentic. There are a few items that are on display that are exact museum facsimiles because they can't be borrowed. They'll never be borrowed, They'll never come to Branson to a conference like this. So in which case in our descriptions and everything comes with careful descriptions for people to read it's indicated clearly that it's an exact facsimile. It will be the closest that anyone will ever get to that item ever in their lifetime. So it's not to be concerned about in any way. I say that to introduce, we have a seal, a scribe seal that was recently discovered. It's now in Jerusalem. We have an exact copy of it from Isaiah. It says this belongs to Isaiah the prophet, and someone can see that and it has his fingerprint on it. It's amazing.
Speaker 2:That was my favorite piece, by the way.
Speaker 3:Oh, really yes.
Speaker 2:Hearing that the fingerprint of Isaiah was a deep spiritual experience.
Speaker 3:It is, and it's selected for that, and it's connected with writing. And you know, in a day and age where we hear all these things didn't happen, they didn't exist, our kids are taught that and, grandkids, we have wonderful evidence preserved by God to show that they did. And so the ancient world is designed to give us confidence in the Bible. In the Old Testament area we have a copy of the Great Isaiah Scroll from the Dead Sea Scrolls. If you go to Israel to see the Dead Sea Scrolls when things settle down there, you'll never see the real one. You'll see a facsimile and that's what you see with us. It's way too fragile to put out on exhibit, but ours is the finest copy in the world and you can see the oldest complete text of the Old Testament, 150 years older than Jesus' time, and when it's compared with the Hebrew text of Isaiah today, it's 99% the same. So it's just amazing. So we have Old Testament records. We have Old Testament translations, which is a story of missions, beginning there With New Testament. We have the oldest fragments of the New Testament and oldest copies of complete Bibles of the New Testament, of the entire Bible, with medieval, the fourth area. My reckoning is there are about 15 major medieval languages that scripture is preserved in, and this period is oftentimes called the Dark Ages, from about 400 AD to about 1450 AD. But I hope the exhibit says loud and clear that it was not a dark age but an age of light, an age of the expansion of the gospel, that God was not asleep, that he was alive and working through missionaries who were taking the gospel to faraway lands, in this case, the manuscripts of the 15 languages. We have about 12. You'll never, ever anywhere, museum of the Bible, any museum in the world, ever be able to see that many languages of scripture handwritten in one place. I'm just telling you, this is my world. You'll never see that again. And it's powerful.
Speaker 3:And they're divided up by continent. So what was God doing? First in Asia, and one of the things in Asia, we have a scroll that comes from the end of the Silk Road in China of the Book of Esther, and we have a copy of one of the earliest Christian texts in China, dating to 600, to show the expansion of the gospel. We have early manuscripts from Africa. We have early manuscripts from Europe. So that's that area Very exciting to me. It always.
Speaker 3:And the final area for this conference is our scriptures that have survived intense persecution. We call it the indestructibility of the Bible, that God's Word stands forever, and so we have a scroll that survived the Spanish Inquisition. There are seven in the world, one will be in Branson. Just to give you the idea the impact of that, there's a scroll that was attempted to be burned by the Nazis. There are books of scripture that were cut apart to be used in covers of later books that have been preserved. There are writings of scripture found in the cover of Mao's Little Red Book. There's a handwritten prison epistles Paul's epistles, written in Russian by a Baptist pastor who was imprisoned three times. The third time he was imprisoned and sent to a gulag in Siberia was for printing scripture. While in prison he's hand copying scripture and distributing it to prisoners. We've been blessed to have a copy of that, and so these kinds of things culminate the experience. There'll be some hands-on activity for people as well, but that's the tip of the iceberg, helen.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm getting excited, as you're sharing this, because how inspiring it is for people who have a heart for missions, who are perhaps personally involved in missions, to see how the Word of God stands through the centuries, the impact that it makes through the centuries, and that it's indestructible, just like God himself is. You know, I feel like combined with the event that is purposed to point you towards. You know, discovering your greater purpose through missions. This is just this perfect combination of history and future put together. So I have to ask do you have a personal favorite artifact and, if so, why does it resonate with you personally?
Speaker 3:Yeah, my goodness, that's so hard.
Speaker 2:It's like asking who your favorite child is. Yeah.
Speaker 3:I know that's unfair, helen, that's not fair. Let me pick something that is completely off the map. All right, I love it all. Everyone has been selected from other items and they're personally chosen specifically for your event, our event together. Let me just point out one that just is a curiosity that would be missed on people.
Speaker 3:There are a number of examples of medieval. So this period between 1400 and 1400, handwritten copies, translations of scripture from various continents, many of them date before the conversion of, like Constine and rome. So people were being converted to christianity with missionary efforts in armenia and in africa and other parts of asia before rome was being converted, and people are unaware of that. So let me choose one of the objects that will be on exhibit which is just to someone, might be a walk-by or pass-by, but underscores this story of missions and scripture. We have a fragment there are only a handful in the world of scripture in old Nubian Now, the Nubian people lived beneath it would be modern-day Sudan, war-torn, civil war Christians, muslims, situated between Egypt and Ethiopia.
Speaker 3:Well, these people were converted to Christianity in the 300s, in the 400s, by missionaries, in this case from Egypt, and going back even earlier to the Book of Acts, with the Ethiopian eunuch, going back to the time of his service in the court of Candace.
Speaker 3:Candace is a name, like Caesar, it's a royal title. She was a queen of a city of Meroe, which is in Sudan. So we know Christianity got there very, very early on, but there are very few records of Scripture that survive. Well, one of the fragments will be on display and it's a collection of verses that are read in the liturgy for the church, so throughout the year they would read different passages of Scripture. In this case, the page that's been preserved is the reading of the liturgy for Christmas, and one of the verses that's in there is, on God's word, that it stands forever and cannot be destroyed and is the bread of our life. And to think that over a thousand years ago they're reading that and that it's the same kind of thing that resonates to us in this season, it's just powerful, it's just so. I would choose that one out of the 50 that will be on display.
Speaker 2:That is incredible and you're so right. I would have walked past it and probably missed it, but that is absolutely phenomenal. Well, hopefully our listeners will come to the conference, listeners will come to the conference and, thanks to your highlight, don't miss on this very, very inspiring and unique piece of history. So, going back to our Indiana Jones angle, I have to ask are there any interesting or unexpected acquisition stories of how certain artifacts were discovered or acquired for this exhibit?
Speaker 3:Yeah, for this exhibit. You know a lot of them because they come from private collections, are private stories, but there are many, many stories of discovery that are absolutely thrilling, absolutely thrilling Indiana Jones-like throughout history, as God's preserved his word. There's a story of two sisters from Cambridge, self-taught scholars in a world where scholars were all men, presbyterian sisters. Their husbands died. They went off on an adventure to discover manuscripts in dangerous places. They went to Cairo, to a synagogue in Cairo, and they had heard that things were coming out of the synagogue. The curator of the synagogue allowed them to go in to the second floor. They put a ladder up to an opening in the wall. One of the sisters climbed up. She looked inside. She looked down to her sister and to a Cambridge scholar who was there. They said what do you see? She said it's simply indescribable.
Speaker 3:There was a pile of over 200,000 manuscripts in a closed off room and it's taken over 100 years to go through. This is 50 years before the Dead Sea Scrolls, but in that assortment there are over 400,000 together. There are over 25,000 texts of Scripture that were found in that, and these are things no one in the world even knows about, and we will have a fragment that came from that that will be on display in the Old Testament area. So that's one small example. There are many, many examples and we try to tell some of the stories when we bring the visitor through, to make the experience meaningful.
Speaker 2:Very good point. So our listeners will have to come to the exhibits to find out some other exciting stories. The real life Indiana Jones stories. The real life Indiana.
Speaker 1:Jones stories.
Speaker 2:Let's talk about the spiritual significance of these artifacts. So in what way do they bring the scripture to life and deepen people's understanding of Bible's relevance for today?
Speaker 3:Right. So God's word is so precious, it's precious to him, it's his message to us, and I look at these objects as having been preserved by God for us, not just preserved for an academic library or for a museum where there's no connection spiritual connection with people, but literally preserved to help further his will in our lives. So each and every one of these items, you know, is handwritten by individuals and took years to do and to preserve, and that they've been preserved. He has a purpose in it and we hope, by prayer and design, to fulfill that purpose, so that these things are meaningful and memorable in the life of Christians and for those who are non-Christians that might open their eyes to the incredible, spiritually significant message of the Bible.
Speaker 2:You must have faced some challenges in curating or preserving these artifacts. Yeah, Would you mind sharing some of them? Yeah, well.
Speaker 3:I mean just in general, to do what we feel called to do to assemble items from, to know where things are around the world, to have relationships with people, genuine relationships where you can borrow treasures that are extremely valuable and extremely rare, and then to ship them, oftentimes to dicey areas where we feel called and have an open door to go to, and then to create something and the security, the shipping, the care for them around that, the research that goes on and the teaching and the training of volunteers and people. It's a lot. It's a lot of work and a lot of moving parts. We've had items in countries where they've held them up and have wanted us to pay bribes to get them out, and we don't. We prayerfully wait for God's intercession and he has interceded. There are all sorts of challenges along the way that way, but there are a lot of moving parts and it's not a simple thing to do, but we're grateful to have the opportunity to do it.
Speaker 2:Well, and I know that you have presented the exhibit in some countries that are even hostile towards Christianity. I find that extraordinary, how you have that opportunity. You know it's the mission field, so God opens doors for you. Have you experienced any hostility towards the exhibit because of its spiritual significance?
Speaker 3:Well, let me say I mean I want you all to know that we are a ministry. We're driven by a passion for ministry. At the same time, god has given us our Roman citizenship, which is I'm an academic, I'm a PhD, I'm a scholar, and so we end up not always, but a lot of times, the majority of times we're doing things at national libraries, at museums, at universities, and so we're coming in at a level that's unique and it provides a kind of credibility. It provides a covering of credibility for the church in that country or in that region. The guard is let down and a lot of we have very commonly, a large majority of people that come to the exhibit are not believers. We just came from Seoul, korea. Probably 40% of the people were not Christians that came to the exhibit. We had just one small example. A guy came up to me afterwards. We were talking about manuscripts and handwriting and reading ancient texts. He's a PhD student in ancient philosophy, a Buddhist. He came from three hours away. He gathered up four of his friends. He spent hours in the exhibit. This is not uncommon in the settings that we're in, so it's a very kind of unique opportunity that God's given us.
Speaker 3:Hong Kong. We were in Hong Kong when it was still more open. What we did in Hong Kong we could not do in Hong Kong today, probably more open. What we did in Hong Kong we could not do in Hong Kong today. Probably We'd have to have many restrictions and hurdles. We had a problem there with somebody that was a fascist, a Nazi, who many of the items are Hebrew scrolls and Jewish writings, and he came in and we had troubles with him there. That led to an arrest, but God preserved the items and the ministry. We've had troubles in Eastern Europe at that level with border control and things of that nature.
Speaker 3:We had an exhibit in Russia where we were part of the international Russian cultural event in St Petersburg. So we were one of the international exhibitors, so we came under an umbrella. That was completely different than coming in with a church. We were in Belarus for a month at their national library and they very kindly said it was the largest cultural experience they've ever had in the history of their country. There were people. They were being bussed in from all the surrounding countries. They would line up for a half a mile waiting to come in in the courtyard. Tens of thousands of people came, but surprisingly it was not with. Even Lukashenko's. One of his sons came to the exhibit, so it was amazing. Putin sent some of his security guard to come for me to take them through because we were going to Russia.
Speaker 3:Next In Belarus, the KGB the leading officials of the KGB came to the exhibit and I took them through the exhibit. They wanted me to take them through. Like you, helen, I took them through and we got two Armenian manuscripts and two of them lit up because they were from Armenia and they began taking selfies in front of the Armenian Gospels and they said to me have you ever been to Armenia? And I said no. They looked at me and they said we can get you there. So I'm thinking you know. Inspired exhibit sponsored by the KGB. Who knows what God will do?
Speaker 2:That is incredible and that drives the point. This exhibit is going to be in Branson for two days only, and it's an extremely rare opportunity. So I encourage all of our listeners who can make it to Branson, or maybe live close to Branson, not to miss that opportunity. Just the impact that you're describing, I think, highlights perfectly how extraordinary and valuable this experience is. So, as we're talking about this, who do you think is going to get the most out of this exhibit? Is it for history enthusiasts? Is it for anyone who is passionate about their faith? Is it for families? Who do you think is the target audience?
Speaker 3:Yeah well, let me presume to try to say it from God's perspective. The 50-some items that will be on exhibit have been preserved by him to tell a message to his people. These things have been preserved thousands of years. They're brought there for them to see and for them to hear the message from each and every one of them, to give them a greater love for their Bible and a deeper appreciation for it. Don't be deceived, listeners. Satan has had a plan throughout history to undermine God's truth, and he's very active doing that in the university. He's very active doing that in the pulpit of the church. He's very active doing that at all levels of our society. This is for you. If you're listening to this, you have friends, you have university students. It's a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to learn and appreciate from these things.
Speaker 2:And, of course, since this exhibit is happening in the combination with the Greater Purpose Conference, that has the theme inspired. It's kind of a full, well-rounded experience of being exposed to what is happening in the Great Commission today. What are people who are called to missions not necessarily, maybe, to long-term missions, but even fulfilling the Great Commission short-term? What opportunities do they have today to do the same thing that people who are highlighted through your exhibit have done in history? History continues and the future is ahead of us and we're told to go and make disciples share the good news, and so I can't imagine an experience more uplifting for any believer in Christ or anyone maybe who is even just curious about Christianity to see this combination of past, present and the future. I think it's a great, great experience. Thank you so much, Scott, for this interview. I look forward to hosting you guys and Branson, to doing this event together and really watching what God accomplishes through it. We're just his instruments in that and the rest is up to him.
Speaker 3:We're thrilled to be there with you, so we're looking forward to it.
Speaker 2:Personally, I would not want to miss such a rare opportunity. I encourage you to register as soon as you can. As we mentioned in the interview, the exhibit is on display for two days only and the conference consists of five incredible sections, with Dr Carroll's final presentation that will tie everything together at the very last session. If you have a heart for missions, there is so much more happening at the conference besides the exhibit. You will receive the latest news from what's happening around the world and the world's hot spots. In the Great Commission you will find practical advice on how to get started in missions.
Speaker 2:If you're a seasoned missionary, there are plenty of opportunities to serve in the upcoming year and you will even have a chance to win a free mission trip for the year 2026. So to register and find out more information, you can visit the website rfwmaorg forward greater purpose. That's where you can register. That's where there is a list of speakers, a schedule of events. You can RSVP for the welcome reception that kicks it off. Again, the website is rfwmaorg slash forward greater purpose. Thank you, dr Carol, for sharing your expertise and passion with us, and thank you for tuning in to Limitless Spirit. If you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to subscribe, leave a review and share it with someone who would love to hear it. Until next time, I'm Helen Todd.
Speaker 1:Limitless Spirit Podcast is produced by World Missions Alliance. We believe that changed lives change lives. If your life was transformed by Christ, you are equipped to help others experience this transformation. Christ called his followers to make disciples across the world. World Missions Alliance gives you an opportunity to do this through short-term missions in over 32 countries across the globe. If you want to help those who are hurting and hopeless and discover your greater purpose in serving, check out our website, rfwmaorg, and find out how to get involved.